Tuesday, October 26, 2010

The Counts As Quandary. Where Do YOU Draw The Line?

It's a hot-button issue for some people, a non-issue for others. For me, it's in between, but very heavily leaning towards non-issue. Basically, I will let opponents proxy or counts-as pretty much anything as anything, as long as both I and they are clear on what's what. I have had people try to switch on me in the middle of a game. Probably on accident, but it is annoying. To avoid this problem while also maintaining my stance on letting people be pretty fast and loose, I have them write down what counts as what, and give that to me. That way, if they do make a 'mistake' I can clarify, they realize their mistake, and we go on with the game in a friendly manner. The only thing that ever would keep me from letting someone proxy or count-as would be if they had an historical track record of trying to play switching games on me. To date, no one has such a track record.

I am interested, though, on what other people think about this. What is your stance? Why? Do you run counts as? Proxy? Will you play against someone who does? Please let me know?

9 comments:

DaveHowitzer said...

Well, having literally 5 minutes ago posted an artcile about a "counts as" army, I feel its appropriate I comment =P

In all honesty I think its 2 seperate issues, the proxy and the counts as issue. To me having to proxy means you are testing a list and thus don;t have the models. This is fine if that's all the game is, testing a list, I'd draw the line if it was a game where both parties wanted to win.
A "counts as" army to me is an army that is modelled and built around a specific codex yet does not adhere to the asthetic that is promoted in the book. Thus is you are playing Wolves but your army doesn't look like wolves you are counts as. As long as everything is modelled to such a degree as to be WYSIWYG ( or as near as it can be, like i dont think you could grude a unit with SS and swords to look like knights when the swords are using the TH rules)

In my mind, its all about the intent, and if the opposing player is on board with that intent. I don;t want to play against a BA army that looks like Tau. But I do want to play a SW army that looks like Deathwatch.

CounterFett said...

Thanks Dave, I have always wondered what the difference between Proxy and Counts as was, so I have been using the term interchangeably. I think your way makes sense.

Seems like you come down on this about where I do. Except I would let the Tau guy run them as BA, as long as I knew what counted as what, and it was constant.

Loquacious said...

Well considering I will need to proxy a whole army, I better let other folks proxy or counts as too. We've got a guy at our league who is using CSM as Space Wolves- weird, but it WORKS.

CounterFett said...

Yeah, CSM as wolves works very well.

What are you proxying?

sonsoftaurus said...

Is it clear what everything is? If so, game on.

Loquacious said...

CF: I'll be using TheDude's MexiMarines as my BT for at least a little, unless he decides to buy me my own guys.

Gyro said...

I'm solidly in the "meh, whatever" category on this one. As long as both sides are having fun, count whatever you want as whatever.

It's more important to me the "spectacle" remains intact than anything, meaning painted armies, terrain, nice scenarios, the works.

CounterFett said...

@ Loquacious...

Why is he dragging his feet? If my wife was into gaming (especially and army as cool as BT) we would be down at the store RIGHT NOW.

@ Gyro, yeah, that's about what I think too. If everyone's having fun, it's all good.

Flamekebab said...

In skirmish games where each unit is different, I don't like "counts as" as a long term solution. If I can't see at a glance what your guys are armed with, I'm at a disadvantage.

However, if equipment has recently changed or time isn't available then I'm fine with counts as, as long as the intention is for the "army" (mob, gang, warband - Gorkamorka, Necromunda, and Mordheim respectively) to eventually be representative of choices, I'm not too bothered.

Proxying is fine for testing purposes, but as a permanent solution I'm not a fan.